Poker Transcripts: Page 2
Alan N. Schoonmaker Interview
High Roller Radio has interviewed some of the greatest gamblers, casino insiders, sports bettors, authors and poker players. Here is our Q&A with Dr. Alan Schoonmaker, a long time columnist for Card Player magazine, author of 14 books, eight of them about poker, including the acclaimed Psychology of Poker."
To reach Alan you can email him at alannschoonmaker42@gmail.com
Q:Psychology comes far behind the strategy and odds right? Do you think most players are doing themselves a disservice by not focussing on the psychological aspect? You see a lot of players with headphones on, constantly checking their phones, seems like they are missing out on a fascinating aspect of the game?
AS: I’ve even seen people reading the newspaper. Or, they’re paying no attention to the game at all because they’ve got a large bet on an NFL game. I think, “What the hell are you doing here?” If you want to watch the football game just wander over to the sports book. They’ve got bigger TV’s over there and you can talk to people about it. I see a lot of people where their head isn’t in the game or they’re just playing what I call formulaic poker. They know they’re going to play certain cards in a one position and certain cards in another position. It really doesn’t matter if the person behind them is a maniac or the person who just open raised is the tightest rock in the country. The very first line in Doyle Brunson's book According to Doyle was, “Don’t play your cards, play your people!”
Q: Why is it that sometimes I can be tuned in and make the right play but other times I can’t? If I can do once why can't I do it all the time?
AS: Nobody can do it every time. Many years ago, I had a psychology professor who said any sentence in psychology that includes the word ‘Always’ or ‘Never’ is wrong. People are variables. You have certainly seen somebody who is a total, absolute rock suddenly make a wild, maniacal play. Why? I don’t know. He got a fit. He got angry. He was thinking because the clock struck seven it was lucky time. Who the hell knows? People do unexpected things frequently.
Q: Sometimes I get that voice in my head that I should leave. That I should pick up my chips and go. Sometimes I stay and lose money. I’ve worked hard at listening at that little voice inside.
AS: Leave! I could give you a whole bunch of psycho-babble but if that inner voice is telling you to leave then leave. You’re most likely not going to play your best and you’re going to feel like a schmuck on the way home. There isn’t a player alive who hasn’t listened to that voice, hasn’t had a serious loss and hasn’t gone home saying, “How could I be so stupid?” Why punish yourself? Your body is telling you. You mentioned the critical factor of being tired. Most people don’t realize how small our edge is. If I’m playing against your typical bunch of reasonably good players, in a low limit game, which means a high raked game, I have a net edge of three, four, five or six per cent. If my game is off 10 per cent I have a negative edge. I’m giving away money. I’m constantly criticizing my own play and I’m aware I’m not as smart as I was a year ago. If you’re even a little bit tired you likely haven’t got an edge in the game anymore.
Q: Okay, it’s closing time, the drunk obnoxious guy comes in and sits to your left. He’s got pocket full of cash, an easy mark, but he's dangerous too. More often than not he’s annoying and hitting everything. How would you handle that situation?
AS: It all depends on how I feel. Sometimes, I leave because it’s painful for me to put up with the guy. On the other hand, if I’m in a better state of mind, a greedier state of mind, I will just adjust to the play. When you have a predictable maniac on your left you have the best spot at the table. You are the semi-permanent button because the action is starting with him. You make a point to become very tight and you wait for the right opportunity. He bets and he’s driving all those people to you. You can make a lot of money in those games but they can be extraordinarily frustrating. One of the characteristics of games with bad players is that you take horrendous beats. Your Aces get cracked by 7, 4 off-suit. You get beat by runner-runner when the guy should have never been in the hand, sort of thing. You just have to live with that. There are times when I say, “Alan, if you’re going to get upset about this I leave.” I’m not a pro player. I’m a recreational player. My laboratory for psychology is poker and if I’m not enjoying it I’m probably not going to play. It’s like anything and it depends on the game too. On Tuesday night you look around and say, “Hey, these guys are pretty good.” On Wednesday night you look around and say, “Hey, lunch is served.” What’s really fascinating is when you sit down in a game and think lunch is served only to realize you are the lunch.
Q: Does it amaze you how far poker has come?
AS: That’s not even a strong enough word. You look at the immortals, a guy like Johnny Moss for example. If he were to be playing today the 22 year old kids would run circles around him. People today have an astonishing knowledge of the odds and the strategy. The kids today are amazingly well informed and far superior to the players back then. They’ve played so many hands. They’ve got things like Poker Tracker and all the other various learning sites out there. They just know so much more about the game than any of the immortals did.
Dr. Alan Schoonmaker Thank-you!
2-to-1 you'll LOVE it!
Alan Schoonmaker Interview
Card Player Columnist & Author of The Psychology of Poker
(Continued...) Full audio HERE
Q: One of the things I find fascinating about you is that, at some point, likely early on in your career, you decided to focus your time and energy on not the big time players, not the pros or the world champions, but the average players, the ordinary low limit players. You say they’re more interesting, more varied, and that’s why you play in those low limit live games. For the characters?
AS: There’s much more variance and the reason is obvious. You cannot get to the higher levels unless you’re a really worthwhile player. At the higher levels everybody knows how to play and the edges between them are actually quite small. You’ll never see a calling station in a big game, it just doesn’t happen. You’ll see very few maniacs in a major game. You’ll see very few rocks because if you’re a rock they’ll just run over you. So, your variability is much greater and the people are more fun down in the games, the little games, that I play.
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